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Brev til Elon | Tesla Forum

P85DK
P85DK Aug 21 '15

På det amerikanske forum er der lagt et brev til Elon Musk ud. Brevet kan ses nedenfor, det er muligt at blive medunderskriver ved at sende sit navn og de sidste fem cifre i sit VIN nummer. Du kan også skrive under selvom du ikke har en P85D.

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Elon Musk, Chief Executive Officer
Tesla Motors
3500 Deer Creek Road
Palo Alto, CA 94304

Date, 2015

Dear Mr. Musk,

We are writing to you as a group of concerned Tesla owners, investors, and perhaps most importantly, supporters. We want to share our thoughts with you on an issue we think is critically important. While we don’t all feel exactly the same way about this matter, we all agree that this warrants your personal attention.

We’re writing because the Tesla Model S P85D falls considerably short of actually making 691 horsepower. We’ll get to the facts that support this in a moment, as well as some of the ideas we’ve discussed for how Tesla might manage this going forward. We want to say at the outset, though, that we have come to you because we think it is inevitable that if we had not, sooner or later someone or some group would go to the media. It is our hope that armed with the information this letter will provide, Tesla will be able to get out in front of anything negative that could come of this issue in the future.

The basic facts are as follows:

The P85D was marketed as making 691 horsepower. It doesn’t. We believe, based on various testing methods and tools including dynamometer testing and testing with professional performance data loggers that the maximum energy output is 415 KW, which results in a maximum horsepower of 557 before any drivetrain losses on a fully charged battery. Even without factoring in drive train loss, this is almost 20% less than the advertised horsepower.

The missing horsepower is quite noticeable at highway passing speeds. For example, from 70-90 mph, the P85D should perform like a car with a power to weight ratio of one HP for every seven pounds. Instead it performs like a car with one HP for every nine pounds. The result of this is that from 70-90 mph the P85D is easily outperformed by an Audi RS7 with a power to weight ratio of only one HP for every eight pounds.

The 691 HP figure appeared on the Tesla Motors website from October 9, 2014 the date of the D launch until the middle of May, 2015. Dozens of articles on the P85D quoted this figure. Tesla did not correct these stories. Tesla allowed the world, and more importantly Tesla customers to believe the P85D would make 691 HP.

In late December, 2014 the following statement was released to the media, and was added to the Tesla Motors website:

The P85D top speed is currently electronically-limited to 130 mph. In the coming months, we will be able to upgrade the car free of charge to enable a 155 mph top speed. This free update will be available for the lifetime of the car (not limited to the first owner). Additionally, an over-the-air firmware upgrade to the power electronics will improve P85D performance at high speed above what anyone outside Tesla has experienced to date. In other words, the car will be better than you experienced. This free upgrade will be rolled out in the next few months, once full validation is complete.

While the top speed firmware upgrade took place, the high speed performance upgrade never did. Many of us believe that promised upgrade, which some of us were counting on to bring our cars up to, or at least closer to the promised 691 HP has now turned into the Ludicrous Mode upgrade. Those of us that believe this think Tesla had every intention of releasing the upgrade at no charge, as originally promised, but found that the hardware was not up to the task, thus requiring the new fuse and Inconel contactors that are now integral parts of Ludicrous Mode.

A related issue that has some signers concerned is that Tesla apparently used 1-foot roll out when providing the original P85D 0-60 time of 3.2 seconds without making any mention of having done so, and without having done so in the past when providing the 0-60 times for other Model S vehicles. While we understand that this is to some extent a standard way of expressing 0-60 times in the United States, it is not standard all over the world. Also the fact that Tesla chose to do this for the first time with the P85D, without explaining what was being done, meant comparisons to other Model S vehicles were not valid. Many signers fear the recent analysis by Consumer Reports, a publication that has written extremely positively about the Model S in the past, will shed even more light on this particular issue.

Most, if not all, of the signers of this letter do not believe that Tesla intentionally misled anyone at any time. The fact remains, though, that many Tesla P85D customers have not received everything they have paid for. How Tesla should handle that is where the feelings of those signing this letter really begin to diverge!

This letter has grown out of several very active and at times heated discussion threads on the Tesla Motors Club forums. These threads have almost two-thousand posts! Many people have very strong feelings on this topic. Some forum members have written Tesla about this issue themselves, and have not received a response of any kind, which is of great concern to many of us. The problem is not going to just fade away.

Some of the signers of this letter are P85D owners who are completely happy with their cars. They may recognize the fact that their cars don’t make 691 HP, but they are OK with it, and are willing to give Tesla a pass on this.

Many signers of this letter think the best thing that Tesla could do would be to give away the Ludicrous Mode upgrade to affected P85D purchasers. In addition to the incredible amount of good will this would generate, and lost trust it would win back, we think there would also be an amazing amount of great press coverage.

Another benefit of this approach is that it would provide great insulation against potential bad press, should the story of the missing horsepower ever become mainstream media news. All Tesla would need to do is say, “We had every intention of being able to provide the stated horsepower. When we discovered we could not, we went back to the drawing board, made the car even better, and gave the improvements to the affected customers for free.” Being able to put out statements like that could turn what easily could have been a negative story into a positive one that improves the Tesla image and increases sales.

Some signers feel that providing the Ludicrous Mode upgrade parts for free, but charging for the labor to install them, would go far enough towards making things right.

Some signers are not sure what would make things right, but know that they want Tesla to take some sort of action to move in that direction.

Every signer of this letter wants Tesla to continue to grow, to prosper, and to succeed in changing the world! We trust that with the information we have provided, you will come up with a solution that works for Tesla and for the affected customers.

Thanks very much for your time!

Sincerely,

Andrew Wallenstein
andywteslaletter@gmail.com
P85D Owner, VIN # P64227

P85D Owners

Other Tesla Owners

Tesla Investors but not Tesla Car Owners

Tesla Supporters

The_Stig
The_Stig Aug 21 '15

Bortset fra, at man naturligvis skal levere den varer der er solgt så er ovenstående brev da noget af det mest hykelriske, nogen kan være vidne til og hvorfor.

Det må være på tide, at man med et så fremtrædende og unikt product begynder, at fokuserer på nogle andre værdier end acceleration og HK !  Det er jo sørgeligt at en helt exceptionel høj person beskyttelse, Total Cost of Ownership, SuC service, life time SW upgrade og  garantiordninger der ikke ses mangen til i branchen, helt negligeres!

Tænk på hvor mange år Rolls Royce bare sagde "nok" når nogen efterlyste hvad deres biler ydede!

Jeg er klar over at TESLA selv har hype´t  deres ydelser og det er grundliggende den største fejl og det er faktisk essensen af at forventningsafstemningen er fejlet - for ingen kan vel helt vurdere +/- fra een bil til en anden når der samtidig er +20% forskel på vægten & -20% på støj & -80% på reaktionstid på en speeder ændring.

Lad os nu stå sammen som roligans i stedet for at blive Hooligans

Forummets indlæg er redigeret af The_Stig Aug 21 '15
Lau
Lau Aug 21 '15

@The_Stig: Helt enig!

Knudsen
Knudsen Aug 21 '15

Jeg har ikke haft fornøjelsen af at prøve en P85D endnu, men "kun" en S85D - og jeg har aldrig taget mit stopur frem under nogle accelerationer i S85D - Så jeg aner ikke om den performer efter specs. men syntes generelt bare den er MEGA hurtig... nok til mig...

 

Men, er dette kun et issue på P85D..? Hvis man til sammenligning ser på en en S85D - hvordan er specs. så i forhold til virkeligheden på S85D...? Holder den hvad Tesla lover ? - for så kan jeg da godt forstå at nogle bliver lidt skuffet over P85D, da den jo så ikke lever HELT hvad specs siger...

 

@The_Stig: +1, er helt enig... ;-)

 

P85DK
P85DK Aug 21 '15

@The_Stig - Det eneste der adskiller en P85D fra en 85D er 1,1s i 0-100 km/t, 278 HK, røde bremsekalibre og så lige 168.000 DKK. Når man betaler 168.000 DKK mere for 1,1s og 278 HK er det så ikke fair at have en vis forventning om at få det? De røde bremsekalibre står næppe for hovedparten af de 168.000 DKK.

Jeg synes det er lidt af et krav at bede folk der har betalt så meget ekstra om at stikke pipen ind fordi man ikke kan lide at Elon har gjort noget forkert. At gøre kunden til skurken her, tror jeg er en rigtig dårlig vej at vælge for Tesla.

@Knudsen - 85D ser ud til at leve op til angivne tal

 

EDIT: Sorry, man får selvfølgelig også et rødt P og et rødt D på bagsmækken - men stadig, det er nok ikke der de 168.000 DKK forsvinder hen

Forummets indlæg er redigeret af P85DK Aug 21 '15
BlackPanther
BlackPanther Aug 21 '15

Så snart jeg modtager dyret håber jeg på at låne (evt. halv) professionelt udstyr til tidtagning. Og når jeg har en tid der mod min forventning er langsommere end 3,3 sek er jeg med underskriver af brevet.

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@P85D

De 33.580,- kr. smutter i moms

Og jo jeg vil godt betale 168k for 1,1 sek og rød malet bremsekalibre  :-)

PS Min bil er debadged så der er ingen P85D mærke på..... så jeg burde faktisk få penge retur :lol

 

 

Forummets indlæg er redigeret af BlackPanther Aug 21 '15
P85DK
P85DK Aug 21 '15

Jeg betalte jo også gladeligt 168.000 inkl. moms. (moms er jo stadig penge op af lommen, så de tæller altså med) for 1,1s, røde bremsekalibre og 278 hk.

Hvornår får du bilen? - der var lige en anden bruger, Skeel, der ved afhentning af sin bil testede med det samme. Fik samme skuffende 3,8 - 3,9s som os andre. Her mener jeg skuffende i forhold til lovet og de 168.000 ekstra for 1,1 og så kun få halvdelen. Det korte af det lange var at Skeel gik direkte ind og fik skrevet den manglende performance på udleveringspapirerne.

The_Stig
The_Stig Aug 21 '15

Tak for jeres kommentarer - mit issue er ikke om bilen kan køre til 100 på x sek. eller ej.

Jeg er i forvejen ret skuffet over at EM ikke kan finde andre værdier at brande sit produkt med! - Helt holistiak set så har han en "redning af verden" via reduceret pollution som scope - hvorfor så køre masiv markedsføring på accellerationer?

Derfor mener jeg brenvet er ufatteligt ensidigt - de skriver nok at de kan li´produktet men at der er en mangel omkrong ydelse - den er er de så kalr til at afklare med en kommersiel løsning med gratis levering af et produkt der skulle reducere tid til 100 yderligere ! - men de kommer jo alligvel ikke i mål, hvis bilen grundlæggende ikke lever op til det annocerede!

Hvad med os der har købt 85D? den står til 422 HK selv om den er udstyret med 2 stk. 261 HK motorer? Måske er der ikke 261 HK men kun 211HK i den motor? Altså knap 20% under!  - der er noget der ikke passer!, men i grunden er jeg mere OBS på de andre værdier som bruges, hver dag, hele tiden og altid - (Sikkerhed, funktionalitet, design og følelsen af at være iblandt  "the few" frem for noget med, at måle om "min er længere end din"

Sorry men for mig er livet andet end at vente på grønt lys :-)  

 

 

BlackPanther
BlackPanther Aug 21 '15

@P85D  om 20 dage :-)

P85DK
P85DK Aug 21 '15

@Stig Ahh - så det var "hvad med os der har købt 85D" der var gemt :-) Forskellen mellem 85D og P85D er at Tesla klart har meldt ud at 85D har 422 hk, mens de for P85D annoncerede den som 700 hk og de på intet tidspunkt har fortalt det rigtige tal som er markant lavere.

Enig med hensyn til hans overordnede vision, men at 'snyde' folk til at betale dyrt for ting de ikke får duer ikke. Målet helligere ikke midlet her.

Lad os nu se om Ludicrous lever op til hvad de lover, tror den lander meget fint på det de har solgt P85D'eren på.

"Sorry men for mig er livet andet end at vente på grønt lys :-)  " - hvorfor du har valgt en 85D frem for en P85D, helt fair

Selvfølgelig er brevet ensidigt, det skal jo sætte fokus på det specifikke der er solgt, men ikke leveret. Han får jo rigeligt med fan breve, så det er der ikke behov for at skrive

 

Forummets indlæg er redigeret af P85DK Aug 21 '15
P85DK
P85DK Aug 21 '15
Citat fra MrTesla

@P85D  om 20 dage :-)


 

Glæd dig, dejlig bil. Sig til hvis du vil have en med så du kan teste performance ved udleveringen

Skeel
Skeel Aug 22 '15
Link til at medunderskrive tak!
Junior
Junior Aug 22 '15
Http://Www.teslaforum.dk/p85d
Forummets indlæg er redigeret af Junior Aug 22 '15
Skeel
Skeel Aug 22 '15
Ikke den danske, den fra USA.. Fandt dog tråden.
Pim
Pim Oct 21 '15